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	<title>Comments on: Too Long</title>
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	<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/</link>
	<description>The official website of the New York-based composer Nico Muhly.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nissimmusic: music and news from composer nissim schaul &#187; quotations</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>nissimmusic: music and news from composer nissim schaul &#187; quotations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-228</guid>
		<description>[...] tangentially, Nico has a good post about new music that&#8217;s too long, too. Of course, it&#8217;s problematic in many of the ways that the Holland is - but in, well, a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tangentially, Nico has a good post about new music that&#8217;s too long, too. Of course, it&#8217;s problematic in many of the ways that the Holland is &#8211; but in, well, a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andronicus</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Andronicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-174</guid>
		<description>Another thought. To me, a good length also depends on the context.  

An example: your &quot;A Hudson Cycle&quot; is probably just right in length for a live performance, but when I lie down, eyes closed, plugged in to my iPod, I want it to go on for another 15-20 minutes or so.   Something about hearing it plugged in changes my perception of time and I really want to live in that world for much longer than I can.

Why not create alternative versions of the same piece tailored for different listening technologies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thought. To me, a good length also depends on the context.  </p>
<p>An example: your &#8220;A Hudson Cycle&#8221; is probably just right in length for a live performance, but when I lie down, eyes closed, plugged in to my iPod, I want it to go on for another 15-20 minutes or so.   Something about hearing it plugged in changes my perception of time and I really want to live in that world for much longer than I can.</p>
<p>Why not create alternative versions of the same piece tailored for different listening technologies?</p>
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		<title>By: Andronicus</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Andronicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 11:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-173</guid>
		<description>But what would Gertrude Stein have said ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what would Gertrude Stein have said ?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Yup. And the other problem is that Dear Music Directors, your concerts are Too Long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. And the other problem is that Dear Music Directors, your concerts are Too Long.</p>
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		<title>By: Qaroline</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Qaroline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-170</guid>
		<description>AMEN!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMEN!</p>
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		<title>By: Alec Bemis</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec Bemis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Completely on point post, the kind of thing that addresses one of the 800lbs gorilla&#039;s in the room which people refrain from addressing for fear of offending. I&#039;d extend it to say that &quot;too long&quot; is a problem that afflicts many arts outside of music and video art.

There&#039;s a Duchamp notion, which I can&#039;t quote exactly, that was a kind of mantra for me at one point: that any book over 200 pages was probably too long. As much as I respect Caro for writing the Power Broker, I only made it to p-400 or so of that book, and I tried real hard.

I tend to think one contributing factor to &quot;too long&quot; at this moment in time is (1) the internets and how they remove the length constraints of traditional publishing (be it CDs run times, the cost of paper), and (2) lack of money (editors cost money in any discipline so why not fire them, reduce their ranks, or transform their job from forcing concision to making acquisitions! the going rates for most magazine &amp; newspaper journalism  have been stagnant since the 1960s, so fuck trying to edit anything down!) and of course there is the matter of (3) ego. But that&#039;s an entirely different conversation...

I hope this comment has not been &quot;too long.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely on point post, the kind of thing that addresses one of the 800lbs gorilla&#8217;s in the room which people refrain from addressing for fear of offending. I&#8217;d extend it to say that &#8220;too long&#8221; is a problem that afflicts many arts outside of music and video art.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a Duchamp notion, which I can&#8217;t quote exactly, that was a kind of mantra for me at one point: that any book over 200 pages was probably too long. As much as I respect Caro for writing the Power Broker, I only made it to p-400 or so of that book, and I tried real hard.</p>
<p>I tend to think one contributing factor to &#8220;too long&#8221; at this moment in time is (1) the internets and how they remove the length constraints of traditional publishing (be it CDs run times, the cost of paper), and (2) lack of money (editors cost money in any discipline so why not fire them, reduce their ranks, or transform their job from forcing concision to making acquisitions! the going rates for most magazine &amp; newspaper journalism  have been stagnant since the 1960s, so fuck trying to edit anything down!) and of course there is the matter of (3) ego. But that&#8217;s an entirely different conversation&#8230;</p>
<p>I hope this comment has not been &#8220;too long.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-167</guid>
		<description>Very well put, Mr. Muhly, I could not agree more. Would that more composers, authors, musicologists, etc., have your insight on this topic...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well put, Mr. Muhly, I could not agree more. Would that more composers, authors, musicologists, etc., have your insight on this topic&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-166</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve had this discussion about editors and editing in music before, haven&#039;t we? And I always plead for brutal self-editing but simply don&#039;t trust the wisdom of crowds ... or most editors.

Can you imagine what Bertelsmann would do with Proust, say, if first confronted with the MSS today?

But you&#039;re right that length is largely a matter of perception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve had this discussion about editors and editing in music before, haven&#8217;t we? And I always plead for brutal self-editing but simply don&#8217;t trust the wisdom of crowds &#8230; or most editors.</p>
<p>Can you imagine what Bertelsmann would do with Proust, say, if first confronted with the MSS today?</p>
<p>But you&#8217;re right that length is largely a matter of perception.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Mego</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Mego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 02:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-165</guid>
		<description>Lovely post, but I if I had written it, would of cut it after the sentence on salad. Which of course makes all kinds of statements about my own compositional process, and now you&#039;ve made me go sit in the corner and think about it. Perhaps I&#039;m a miniaturist and didn&#039;t know it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lovely post, but I if I had written it, would of cut it after the sentence on salad. Which of course makes all kinds of statements about my own compositional process, and now you&#8217;ve made me go sit in the corner and think about it. Perhaps I&#8217;m a miniaturist and didn&#8217;t know it?</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-164</guid>
		<description>Great post...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Blachly</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>James Blachly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-163</guid>
		<description>I was at the Volans concert, and we did share a bowl of mussels, not actual mussels, but pasta. And we didn&#039;t mention the fact that it was Too Long, but it was clearly so; perhaps no one needed to mention it. Or perhaps Kevin sitting ten feet away kept us from the subject. I loved his music, all of it, great variety, great sense of drama, beautiful chord choices, excellent timbral elements, and good control of his material . But the pacing was off. Too many repetitions, formally and thematically; very many times each section was just a few bars TL. 

The lack of editing in our field is a function of both the inherent solitary work, and the fact that few of us trust anyone else enough to work with them as an &#039;editor.&#039; But I did just that on my last piece, and it was fantastically helpful. Indeed, it inspired me to cut something like 5%. 

To use your analogy, I think the temptation to serve everything you have bought is great, but as you say so well, the best meal is the simple, well-articulated one; we taste each ingredient only if it is not overloaded with superfluous spices, or too many courses. 

I wonder what M. Volans has to say about such things. I went to his pre-concert lecture, and he seemed intent on reversing what he deemed unnecessary preconceptions about pacing, that we have been programmed by pop music to expect a shift every twenty seconds. 

But while I&#039;ll admit that it&#039;s a matter of aesthetics to a certain extent, there is a human need for novelty and excitement, and we want to be told a story-a story with unexpected shifts, and spooky, amazing scenery. And we want it to be well-told. Okay, I&#039;m off to other parts of your site. That was a fantastic post, and I agree wholeheartedly with what you say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at the Volans concert, and we did share a bowl of mussels, not actual mussels, but pasta. And we didn&#8217;t mention the fact that it was Too Long, but it was clearly so; perhaps no one needed to mention it. Or perhaps Kevin sitting ten feet away kept us from the subject. I loved his music, all of it, great variety, great sense of drama, beautiful chord choices, excellent timbral elements, and good control of his material . But the pacing was off. Too many repetitions, formally and thematically; very many times each section was just a few bars TL. </p>
<p>The lack of editing in our field is a function of both the inherent solitary work, and the fact that few of us trust anyone else enough to work with them as an &#8216;editor.&#8217; But I did just that on my last piece, and it was fantastically helpful. Indeed, it inspired me to cut something like 5%. </p>
<p>To use your analogy, I think the temptation to serve everything you have bought is great, but as you say so well, the best meal is the simple, well-articulated one; we taste each ingredient only if it is not overloaded with superfluous spices, or too many courses. </p>
<p>I wonder what M. Volans has to say about such things. I went to his pre-concert lecture, and he seemed intent on reversing what he deemed unnecessary preconceptions about pacing, that we have been programmed by pop music to expect a shift every twenty seconds. </p>
<p>But while I&#8217;ll admit that it&#8217;s a matter of aesthetics to a certain extent, there is a human need for novelty and excitement, and we want to be told a story-a story with unexpected shifts, and spooky, amazing scenery. And we want it to be well-told. Okay, I&#8217;m off to other parts of your site. That was a fantastic post, and I agree wholeheartedly with what you say.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Geelhoed</title>
		<link>http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Geelhoed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicomuhly.com/news/2007/too-long/#comment-162</guid>
		<description>I often feel a slight frisson of excitement when the violins turn a page of music, and reveal that it was the last page turn, and that there is now music on the left side of the stand, but not the right. The end is finally near, thank you sweet baby Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often feel a slight frisson of excitement when the violins turn a page of music, and reveal that it was the last page turn, and that there is now music on the left side of the stand, but not the right. The end is finally near, thank you sweet baby Jesus.</p>
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